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| (File photo) DaySpring Assembly of God Church members are looking to form a Spencer Dream Center nonprofit corporation in The Hotel aimed at serving the community's needs. |
Community's help is sought in raising $80,000
If a local church has its way, The Hotel will become a "dream center" for the area.
Rev. Kevin Grimes of DaySpring Assembly announced Friday, "KES Properties LLC, the owner of The Hotel on Grand Avenue, has offered to give us all of the stock in the corporation. Basically, they're giving the church the corporation which owns The Hotel. In turn, DaySpring will be setting up a 501(c)3 nonprofit corporation, called the Spencer Dream Center, which will be an outreach to the community and a separate nonprofit from the church."
"We need to raise $80,000 to reimburse some of the past expenses that have been incurred in the building," Grimes continued to explain, "which was part of the deal. ... And then, we will reimburse the current owners of that corporation.
"Obviously, our church cannot do this on our own. We have grant writers and such who are going to be working with us to secure federal funding for some of these things, maybe local grants, corporations to help us. But, we really need the community -- other churches, individuals and businesses in town -- to get behind us on this first $80,000 to get this off the ground. We've given ourselves an artificial deadline of 60 days to raise it."
The Spencer landmark located at 605 N. Grand Ave. has been vacant since May 3, 2006, when previous owner Steve Bear locked its doors amid foreclosure proceedings.
Why is this needed?
"Today in Clay County, there's an unprecedented number of families that are living below the poverty line. Average income for the poor has been declining, and there's a desperate need for these individuals, especially those in the poverty level, for housing, food and clothing. We know that community resources are stretched to the breaking point, and children in these situations are the most negatively affected. We've done some research," Grimes said, "and it seems that nationally about 50 percent of all children live in single-parent homes for at least part of their childhood. These kids from single-parent homes are five times more likely to live below the poverty line than those who live with both parents. So, many of these children living in poverty are going to experience lives with gangs, drugs and crime. In talking with (Clay County Sheriff) Randy Krukow, he said the jail population is growing by 3 percent per year in Clay County. So, crime is on the increase here also. ... We want to keep people out of the jails by turning their lives around. Problems that a decade ago only affected the 'inner city' are increasingly affecting all Americans -- even us here in Spencer. We believe that we're going to continue to see an increase in drugs, crime and poverty until we do something to change that. So, the Dream Center will be a volunteer-driven, nonprofit organization that's going to provide social services and outreach programs to meet people's physical, spiritual and long-term needs."
What's being proposed locally?
A youth center in the basement is one of the first programs they hope to implement. Plans are to have pool tables, pinball machines, a television and snack bar, among other things, in the "cool, safe environment for kids to hang out in."
"I believe that the young people in Spencer desperately need a place like this," Grimes said. "Especially in the colder months, when there's no place to go outside."
Plans are to also turn the bar area on The Hotel's main floor into a coffeehouse which serves high-end coffee, mixed coffee drinks, frappuccino, cappuccino, espresso and other goodies. The intent for this area, which would be garnished with overstuffed furniture and books, would be to serve as another comfortable community gathering place.
"As far as the front half of the building on the main floor, the restaurant, we're just not sure exactly what that will be yet," Grimes said. "We may open a restaurant or we may allow somebody else to open a restaurant in that space and lease it from us. Not sure how that's going to work, but we're still thinking about that."
Tentative plans for The Hotel's second, third and fourth floor rooms, which were remodeled in the 1980s, also call for a community outreach focus.
"There's 39 rooms right now that are finished where we could provide, out of the Dream Center, food and clothing, job training and other training programs, after-school programs, shelter for those who need shelter, and life rehabilitation (services)," Grimes forecast. "It's hard yet to see exactly where all that's going to go, but there is a lot of need here. There are other ministries and social services that are helping some groups, but others aren't getting helped at all now. ... The idea of the Dream Center is to strive to help solve the moral decay, crime, gangs, drugs, homelessness and poverty epidemics that exist in our nation. While people may say we don't have that in Spencer or Clay County, I would say, 'You're right. Not much. But, it is increasing -- and we want to stop it.' The vision is to see hurting people come to know a new life through the efforts of staff and volunteers, as well as those who've been recently rehabilitated whose lives have been dramatically changed."
If plans proceed as they're being discussed, The Hotel's fifth floor, which is fairly original to its 1930 state, may turn into "what we would call a Lord's gym," Grimes added. "It would have exercise equipment up there and a place for kids to work out, and also have sports outreach ministries to the community."
How's all this going to happen?
While Grimes acknowledges this is a huge undertaking, he's confident members of the community at large will assist in realizing a local Dream Center.
"We're planning to join together with other nonprofits, other churches, nonprofit organizations, corporations, foundations and individuals of many faiths throughout the world with the common purpose of meeting the spiritual and socioeconomic needs of Spencer and Clay County," he said.
* For more information about this project, view http://spencerdreamcenter.org/
* Questions may also be referred to Rev. Kevin Grimes at (712) 262-6292 or (909) 856-4239.
* Tax-deductible donations, in the form of checks, may be sent to DaySpring Assembly of God Church; 1410 W. 18th St., Spencer, Iowa 51301.
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please
Just because the Church advocates it, doesn't mean it's a good idea. I know this article isn't all about "imports to Spencer" but the Churches in this country are largely responsible for importing a good share of this type of "problem", and among other things helping to bring the inner city to what used to be a relatively crime free area (I'm talking statewide). Funny how Spencer never had a "need" for a Dream Center until now. Read up on Iowa City lately? These Church "leaders" now want to back Amnesty for all illegal immigrants. Let your Church leaders know where you stand. Judging by any National polls to date, the people who actually have to pay for this "help" are firmly opposed by a very large majority. I've had enough of the Churches help, Thank You........ Quit trying to save the entire world on my dime, without my permission.
I cannot imagine where all the funds will come from for this sort of operation. You and I?
Where are all the homeless people in Spencer to fill this building? I am not that well off, but I pay rent and do OK. Does this mean my landlord will be looking for a renter soon, if I should move into this old hotel?
What is the cost in lost taxes if this property goes into a nonprofit status, 10,000 a year? Is a nonprofit allowed to ruin good valued business operations that provide taxes to county and city operations? The cost of repairs and upgrades to this property for this kind of dream will be not much less that one million dollars. The building is a mess, the roof is shot and the elevator will need to be replaced. Serving the down and out will not pay the upkeep, staff, and utilities on a building of this size.
I can't see how this makes any sense other than to some who want a bigger community profile. GOOD LUCK!
I guess I am too late. I was developing a plan to turn the Hotel into a nonprofit co-op. I was going to raise the money to purchase and renovate it ahead of time. Any nonprofit wanting a space could come in there and their dues and rents, etc. would help sustain the place over the long term. By sharing office space and equipment, conference rooms and other physical plant items, the nonprofits would save money and be better able to work together.
I was also going to have an entrepreneurial incubator where if someone had an idea for a business that would add to the community economy and benefit others (not just a money making venture to benefit one person or a few people) they could also use the office space, shared receptionist, equipment, etc. while launching the business.
Ah well. I wish them luck on their dream center. I had not approached KES yet because I wanted to have the perfect proposal and all my ducks in a row (and a mode for raising the funds for renovation) before going to them.
Some dreams must be replaced by others, I guess.
Isn't it great to hear from people that have a vision and a dream. When the dream is impossible that means that only God can make this dream come true. Just watch and see a miracle happen.
If it is God's will, it's Gods bill. He will provide.
guitarman, If you mean God as in me and my fellow taxpayers, then you are correct.
Within 5 years it will be a parking lot.
I think it's AWESOME that there are people who are concerned with helping others who are less fortunate and I commend those who have big dreams in which they are working towards...especially when those big dreams aren't self-serving. I can see both the good and maybe not so good in all of the above stated plans for the building...I'm realistic and know that even the best of intentions can backfire. I would also like to point out that the comments on this article are very interesting...especially those negative comments from people who appear to be brave and outspoken enough to speak up yet feel a need to hide behind a username. If you have a strong opinion...be proud of that opinion!
I think the idea is a good one. I'm just opposed to the location. For $80,000 you can have a brand new building, or maybe try the old Ace building. The Hotel is a piece of Spencer history and it's such a beautiful building. I guess I'm just afraid it's going to be ruined. Ungrateful people have a tendency to ruin good things. I'd love to see it restored and opened as a hotel with the restaurant at the bottom again!! But I suppose that's just wishful thinking.
Well EmilyB, when reading articles such as these, that seem to be very prevalent in today's society, in other words, too many people from too many places needing too much help. Many of those have all the tools to help themselves, yet not the desire or work ethic to do so. Why? Because there are too many people like you willing to give handouts to all, no matter if the "wounds" to themselves are self-inflicted or just plain bad luck. I'm quite sympathetic to those who are truly in need, and doing all they can to get out of a bad situation. I am not however in favor of handing out taxpayer money hand over fist just because a Church Leader or a Politician thinks it's a good idea. Someone has to pay for these "good idea's", and that someone is hard working honest people that don't have a say on what they are paying for. That is stealing as far as I'm concerned. I'm reminded of a saying that a co-worker has "drilled" into my conscious, "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished". Doesn't seem right does it? But oh how often that rings true.
We already know what this Dick Butkus thinks of this, he keeps telling us. I guess he is a part of the loud minority. What is wrong with the rest of us? We are, as usual, the silent majority.
if God is in this, no one can stop it, if He is not, there is no way to put it together. I have always loved the hotel. I pray it will continue to be used in a manner useful to the beautiful Spencer community.
Well it appears we have two LARGE donors ready to step up and save the rest of us (LJoan and EmilyB) from paying for what they believe is a great idea. Liberals to the max, but only if everyone else chips in for their idea of Utopia. You just can't make this stuff up. I'm sure you think illegal immigrants are being unjustly treated also, though there is a law about coming to the country illegally. It's true, you can look it up. Assuming you can read thru your rose colored glasses. Here's a great way to help the downtrodden. Find them a job.
If this is God's will, then so be it. People like Mr. Butkus will never know the true meaning of giving. Giving it comes from the heart, not something to brag about, or to use for tax purposes. I do NOT think this is about illegals or Utopia, it is about helping our neighbors and friends who need help.
I appreciate all your comments on this page. I am a tax payer just like the rest of you. However when you ask the Lord into your heart your attitude changes for people!!! So why not let the Lord take over and see what he can do not only in Spencer with this Dream Center but around this only area and state. There are many statistics right here in Spencer that show KIDS are being aboused, drug abuse, etc.... why not have a safe haven and an activity center for them. This Dream Center has no motive or the Dream is not to harm anybody, it really is going to be established to find a need and fill it, find a hurt and heal it.
I hope that if this goes through, none of the people obtaining assistance from this place will have the help that they need held hostage by church or religious propaganda. Every time I've had to use the facilities of a homeless shelter, or stand in line at a church-run soup kitchen, myself and everyone else there had sermons, pamphlets, and tracts shoved down our throat in exchange for a meal, shower, or dry place to sleep. It is a basic human right to all of those things, and it doesn't take a god or a dream center to provide them. It just takes people. From the perspective of one getting assistance in any form, the idea of charity is met with gratefulness and humiliation. It's degrading enough on it's own to be forced to take handouts, but nobody needs to be told how they can be "saved" at the same time. Everybody knows what a church is and what they can find there. If they desire to receive and hear those things, then that's where they can get it. As a free choice. I, for one, am tired of seeing things done only when it's "in god's name". If it's not something you'd do on your own, without a god leading you to do it, then you are missing the point completely and are not honest with yourself about how much you care. I say let people help people for the sake of helping. That's the light of something both real and rare.
While I agree with a few things that Dick Butkus has to say for the most part I do believe that he needs to pull his head out of his Butkus! His first comment (better known as babble) in this entire thread did not even deserve anyones response! Remember people you should never argue with ignorance.
I very much respect what Levi944 said. I don't agree that free choice and "god's name" as he puts it, are mutually exclusive, but if he's been assaulted with prosthelytizing while at his worst, most painful moments, then I see why he might believe as he does.
What's missing from this equation is sustainability. What if the people who received help from these programs were invited/expected (but not forced) to give back to the community. If help was given with the attitude, "Now that you have food and a place to stay a while, we're excited to see what talents you can bring to our efforts," wouldn't that take away a lot of the sting and humiliation of having to receive help?
If the chain is linear -- givers give and receivers take -- it will soon break. If the chain is circular, however, givers give, receivers receive, then become givers, the chain can sustain itself.
What is important to consider in all of this is weather such a building as the Hotel is appropriate to this sort of purpose. If there were such a need in Spencer, then where are all the deserving souls that would make a facility like this workable? Has anyone actually considered what it will cost to develop this monster plan and pay to run it on a daily basis? It might be cheaper to find those in need an apartment, or see how much space is needed and build for that much need.
This looks like, "Hey, we can have this swell building, now how can we fill it up, and how can we get someone else to pay for it?"
If there is such a need and god will always provide, why don't we have it already? I know let's let god do it. Just sit back and wait for god to fix the roof, replace the elevator, pay all the bills, etc, etc. Give god his due, it's people that will save this planet from man or god would not have given us the talent to do it ourselves. That is what god expects us to do, fix our own messes with our own resources.
levi944, with all due respect, it takes a lot of audacity to expect charity, yet feel you can set the conditions for which it is offered.
I see nothing wrong with informing a guest that the Christian principles of charity and kindness provided a meal or made lodging possible. Their hearts are in the right place and the sense of entitlement expressed in your comments is staggering.
Yes. How great thou art for letting someone live. In all honesty, you are right about one thing. It does take a lot of audacity to expect charity, because clearly in this society of class and greed, it is naive to expect such a thing. Yet I do. Your sense of "moral" superiority in which you say you see nothing wrong with informing people that they received kindness because you are Christian, looks to me like more of a need for entitlement, and quite frankly, pompous. If it were truly about caring or about people, it would make no difference if the care was provided by a Christian. But care isn't the goal. It's about pushing an agenda to fill up the church pews, no matter how they get that way. The proof of that accusation is in the idea that churches are not the only ones to lend a hand, so it is possible help without advertising a god. Just my opinion, but I feel like he would rather remain humble and anonymous anyways. I 100% defend your right to believe whatever you wish, but when you use an unavoidable situation as an opportunity to push those beliefs on others, then it makes it impossible for you to return that same respect. Lastly, let me make it clear for you. I don't feel like I can set the conditions for which charity is offered. Mainly because I don't think there should be conditions. Conditions don't really comply with the idea of unconditional love. Secondly, the word 'charity' itself implies a sense of superiority and superficial sacrifice. How about doing it just because it's the right thing to do? If you don't think so, tell me how you are different than anyone else, and are invincible to the random chance effects of wage-slavery.
levi44 is right in one very unavoidable fact. None of us knows what time and under what circumstances we each, may find ourselves on the receiving end of charity. Suppose you are immune if you wish, imagine that the almighty will not allow his sheep to become victims of poor health, financial disaster, changes in power structures. We all must assume that our day to be destitute is not unimaginable. We cannot assume we are being charitable if we have anterior motives, and would not contribute without a tax right off, or wrong off?
Is it possible to live in real community, where there's not haves and have nots, givers and receivers, but everyone comes together to make the society work -- VOLUNTARILY (if the government gets involved then indeed it will look like socialism). Interdependence is the only thing that will get everyone through this economy.
Thank you Levi944 for standing up and admitting that you found yourself in need and sought help where it was available. This is much more common than you probably imagine and than some posters here can possibly conceive.
Look around. Something LIKE the Dream Center is desperately needed. But I believe they will be doing everyone a disservice if they fail to remember whom they serve -- people who deserve to have their dignity intact and who should be seen as part of our interdependent society.
Well said. This is the type of community I wish for. One that actually is a commUNITY composed of diversity.
Okay, I understand that there is NO WAY we could get everyone to agree on "what's best" for the community. There are some people who post on here about hating the art, hating the streets, hating the schools, hating the business decisions. I understand frustrations. Then, someone tries to do something positive for the community, not just this, but other things... and we have to find a problem with that too. Do you have the perfect answer? The one step solution? If you do, please run for mayor, I'll vote for you. Or maybe go to a city counsel meeting- I'm sure they'd love to hear your solutions. Obviously no one has the right answers, but at least some people are trying to make something of this community. Yep, it's hard to find a job right now, and it sucks that businesses are leaving. Trust me, I know. We have to start improving somewhere. I see both sides to these arguments, but sitting on this site and getting mad at each other and putting each other down doesn't get Spencer anywhere.
Nobody is expecting the perfect solution or has the perfect answer that everyone will agree with. The comments expressed here have all been with concern for the occupants of such a place feeling alienated, and with concern for the community's well being. We all understand that sitting on an empty building such as the Hotel isn't beneficial in any way. At the same time, complete disregard of failure in past attempts is reckless, and a waste of resources and money if this does not work. There have been many attempts at youth centers, coffee shops, and things of this very same nature. All backed by the church and starting out as non-profit, faith-based organizations. If nobody is willing to meet and talk about these failures and why they fell apart, and what could be done differently to avoid future disasters, then great. Don't change a thing about how this is being approached. Constructive criticism is essential and needs to be met with patient mouths and open minds from all sides.
If they wanna raise that much money in 60 days they better get on it! Has anyone heard anything about a bake sale or car wash or anything? They can't just expect people to walk up to them and say, "Oh here's $80,000 I just had laying around, go ahead and have it." Maybe throw together a Halloween dance, might be too late for that one though. Could have charged 5 dollars a person to get in. That would have been cool!
As far as I know there won't be any fundraisers. If you would like to help here is the link to check on the progress of funding. http://spencerdreamcenter.org/ Pastor Kevin is good about keeping it updated.
Not sure if any of you know this but there are other Dream Centers in the US. They are awesome places! Many people are helped and go on to have better lives because of it. It isn't all homeless people and people looking for a handout.
I personally have never been to the LA Dream Center but I know people who have. They went to help as a mission and they came away changed. And if it impacted THEM that much, imagine what it would do for the people in need!
I hope you are right that there won't be any fundraisers. I hope that I don't have people coming around for the rest of my existence in this town, asking me to contribute to this mistake. I can't wait to see how downtown Spencer looks when we fill it up with unemployed homeless people from the entire region.
Wow. I find it amazing when a wonderful idea such as the Spencer Dream Center to help your community and surrounding area is handed to you - the first thing you do is consider the negative.
Lets all look at the positives, k?
YES there are people that live under the bridge (yes there are!), There are homeless in the area, there is crime, heck there's probably gangs. I grew up in a town nearby that all the adults/parents kept saying "no there's no gangs, my kids are wrong." When actually there was a powerful gang, which killed someone too young to die.
kriskay is right, there is many other Dream Centers out there. Go online, learn about them. Learn about what they offer. Many of the services they offer we may have in ours.
I'd like to see all of you neigh-sayers researching this out, seeing what it's all about FIRST before saying it can't be done.
It can be done, and better yet - it's going to be done. And even more...we want YOU to be a part of it, all of you!
Please do some research in this.
We will be having a "Town Hall" meeting coming up - (will probably be updated on that website kriskay gave you) http://spencerdreamcenter.org and you're MORE than welcome to come share your questions and get them answered then.
Until then, take care.
WOW! I would be positive if I thought the dream center was being handed to us, not forced upon the downtown and at our expense. (unless "handed" means FREE!)
But also, to respond, I do not see how having a this program cancels out gangs? Kids will normally run in packs and that may be a loose definition of the word gang, depending on their activities. So where are the gang activities in Spencer? Gang colors, initiations, gang signs or graffiti related to territories. Do we believe that gangs will vanish if the hotel has bible thumping going on inside?
Maybe this is a situation of "if you build it they will come"??? Meaning, gangs and homeless people will be coming from all over the area to fill up this old hotel?
I guess I don't see how we will be able to pay for this idea, especially if there can't be a demonstration of need appropriate to the project.
Well, good luck.
Levi, the way I look at it is: if you don't want to hear "the bible thumping" then don't get help from a CHRISTIAN based center! Get help else where. It is that simple!
It's truly sad to see so many people misunderstanding what the DreamCenter is about, nor are they willing to at least learn some more about it before jumping on the bandwagon of neigh-sayers.
As I said before, when they have the TownHall meeting we'd all love for you to bring your questions. And if you have any now, check out www.spencerdreamcenter.org
By the way, "A. View Point"...
and who ever said YOU are paying for anything to do with this DreamCenter?? I sure didn't.
The donations are coming in.
"If it's God's will it's God's bill"
Welp Just_Me_In_Spencer, fortunately I don't need the help at this point in my life, and I never used your quoted term "bible thumping". I suggest you read a little more carefully. I do however believe this type of assistance should be available without the religious agenda behind it. I was only speaking out of experience having been on both the receiving, and giving end of projects such as these. While I do also think there is a need for assistance such as this in Spencer, the rest of reality (past and present) shouldn't be ignored. My main point was to remind anyone involved that the concept of helping someone with even the most basic of needs, is something to be thought about from every perspective. Not just from the pulpit view. And while getting help elsewhere in order to avoid religious "guidance" would be simple, it's not really that easy when the church is holding the cards and the same help isn't available through a secular institution in Spencer. So since The Dream Center seems to be the one closest to making help a reality, I only put my two cents in to hopefully make people take a step back and ask themselves what the point of this is. Morality isn't created or upheld only by those with religious beliefs. History shows the contrary, actually, but even simple honesty provides the point of my view. Providing that religion is free to be practiced by anyone at any time, and given that not everyone is religious at all let alone Christian, which alienates more people? A Christian-based center where there is no choice but to be subjected to religious propaganda in order to gain assistance? Or a human-based organization where there is no path or god preached about, but is open to give the same assistance, and anyone who wishes to practice their faith or seek out religious guidance may still do so? If it's people we're talking about caring for, the answer is simple. If it's church seats we're talking about filling, the reality is unmistakably clear.
levi, in my opinion, if someone is truly in need of help the group of people offering to give it should not matter. Also, while I realize Christians aren't the only ones with this sort of "giving spirit" they are apparently the only ones in Spencer who are stepping up with this kind of assistance. Perhaps you would like to organize a non-religious group with the same goals?
Break a person down into two parts. Soul, personal beliefs, morals, ethics, views, are all put into one category. The physical side consists of material possessions, health, food, shelter, clothing, all the things you can touch or see. A person in need of assistance is in need of something on the physical side of life. They lack one or more of those things which are vital to sustain a physically healthy life. Anybody lacking such things shouldn't be asked to give up more (soul/personal belief side) in order to receive assistance. In fact, why would you ever ask someone to do that? If the roles were reversed, and a center opened up offering assistance to anyone, but they had to be subjected to Muslim, Hindu, or even Satanist propaganda and teachings. How many people with a solid Christian personal belief system would feel comfortable with going to get help? Receive this food, courtesy of the grace of Allah. Get fit at the Devil's gym, or feel free to pray to Krishna. We'll show you the way by the grace of Ganesh. Even simple comments of how this should be a non-religious help center has provoked many backlashes from people defending their own faith, even though it has not been directly attacked. Why should you expect people who choose a different personal path to be any different than you in that aspect? People hold their convictions close, and rightly so, but convictions are dangerous if not questioned and put to the test. Never follow something without understanding it's history and entirety, and admit it's folly when such is found. As for organizing a non-religious group with the same goals? I'd love to. Unfortunately I'm not in the position to do so, and probably wouldn't do so if I thought the demand wouldn't be as plentiful as the resources. It would be a waste for me to use so much only to create something bound to fail. This is why I have made my comments. Once again don't misinterpret what I am saying. I understand the church is the one providing this help, that's why I have never said that I hope it doesn't work. I'm simply throwing out my perspective in a plea to understand something more than yourselves, and look at past attempts of the same kind to understand their failures. Learning from mistakes and being honest about their origin is the only way to ever make any sustainable progress, no matter what the issue. My want for this project isn't destruction of it. It's that if it comes into fruition, it got their with open minds and truly open eyes. Sometimes keeping your eye only on your goal creates tunnel vision. Blocking out options and mistakes, disabling the ability to learn. Inevitably keeping the ultimate purpose from being attained.
I understand your position, levi, but I fail to see where giving assistance equates taking a piece of someone's soul. Obviously, holding physical relief hostage for religious promises is wrong, but how many charitable organizations do you know that don't at least make their beliefs known? I see nothing wrong with advertising those beliefs (also so those who disagree may decline their services) and advancing what they believe to be a service to others.
And, yes, I have to say that if I were starving and a prayer to Allah was offered up before the meal, I would partake in the food but not the prayer. If I was not given the option to decline participating in that prayer, or service was witheld because I did not share their beliefs, then I would wholeheartedly take your position against that organization. However, I don't see that this is the case here.
Offering help with a Christian message is not a deal-breaker unless you begin forcing those who need the help to take your beliefs, and I don't believe that this is the nature of the proposed Center or its founders. If they prove themselves to be this way, then I am just as much against their actions as you. Until that happens, can't we just accept that at least they're trying to help others and hope for other individuals to do so in the future? In other words, I don't believe that being a Christian group automatically means that they will put proselytizing above the call to help those in need, and I don't believe that refraining from putting one's religion on the table is a necessary step to being truly charitable.
Giving assistance isn't equatable to taking someone's soul. Please follow along, and don't take me as one to be so dramatic. I was describing the two part category of a person. Soul being one tiny fraction, along with many other things I listed, on that side. Saying that one part is composed of the things that make up who a person is. The other part is the physical. More or less what a person has. There are many ways to take a piece of who a person is. It doesn't have to be a direct attack on someone's beliefs. For someone to be told they can be saved, or that god has a better plan for them, is to imply that they need saving in the first place, or that their god is somehow better than the beliefs of the person in need of assistance. Remember, people coming are looking for a little help on the physical side, not to be saved or changed on the personal side. Let's not deny the goal of most major religions is to win souls for their side. It's a game for them. A serious one, but a game none the less. The goal of Christianity is not to welcome and get along with Islamic or Hindu faith by encouraging it. The same goes for any theistic religion. Which means that it has no choice but to alienate people when promoting a particular faith. This is not speculation, it's inevitable. This is my point about whether this project is about people, or church pews. I really don't think I can explain myself anymore. Because once again, yes, I can accept that at least someone is trying to help others. But we should never settle for an option and believe it's the best one simply based on the fact that it's the only one. Improvements are best made before a process is finished. Just remember that when they are remodeling god's gym, or any other such space, they are building more than just physical walls.
I would point out, that the total cost of such a project costs many in our community, and possibly all of us, in various ways. As for the cost to me, I know that the property taxes on the Hotel amount to around 100,000.00 per year. As a nonprofit property the net loss will need to be absorbed by those who DO pay property tax in Clay County. The donations to keep this facility operational will come from sources that will deplete the available funds for my favored nonprofits, that means I may need to increase my giving to these organizations to help keep them alive. So there are costs in this regard to us all, not to mention the constant hitting up of the donation mill. I get them in the mail, over the phone, and in person. Give, give, give, while I must make do on starvation wages. It is not possible for a sentient human being to put their head in the sand and not give something, often. There is a finite amount of available funds for donation recipients. Grow the donation pie and someone must suffer for the costs of one more, VAST, project. If I am renting to low income families and single adults, then they will likely move out of my rental units for free housing.
Oh yes, it will cost us all, how can it not?
Levi, I respect your viewpoint, but I think that sometimes (note that I didn't say ALL the time) those non-physical "walls" exist more in the minds of those that consider themselves "outsiders". I hope the Center can achieve its goal of providing assistance to all who may need it.
I am for some kind of outreach center/shelter/teen center, but not at the Hotel. I worked at the Hotel, just before the owner ran it into the ground. He neglected the roof for years, causing the entire 5th floor and part of the 4th to be ruined. The 5th floor was never renovated, and it would take a huge amount of cash before it will be inhabitable. The estimates for the roof were, if I remember correctly, around $250,000 to $300,000. Then there's the elevator. It can't be repaired. A new one is going to have to be installed, costing probably close to another hundred thousand. Then there's the fact that the basement floods. I know, I've helped a co-worker try to make it out of the laundry room without getting shocked when the drain backed up. (no it was not raining, just poor drainage that had never been adressed). The only working parts of the hotel were the restaurant and the bar, both of which would have made money if they had been run properly. There were rooms on the second floor but they were not comfortable and also suffered from poor drainage in the bathrooms. (Also with no elevator, customers had to drag their luggage up the back steps to access their room).
Other than winning the lottery and spending said winnings on an extensive reno, the only way to save the Hotel is to re-open the restaurant and bar. Yes, the decor is horribly outdated but it can at least be cleaned up. Employ people from Spencer, give others a place to go that is welcoming and familiar. Use the large basement rooms as a (NON Denominational) rec room for teens, or as it was used in the past--as a cost effective solution to people who can't afford the Events Center for their reception or anniversary party. Without the Hotel laundry running every day, the kids will only have to wade through the water in the Spring hopefully. As time & money permits, the elevator, top floors and roof can all be repaired. Spencer needs the Hotel, but it needs it as a tax-paying business that will employ residents from Spencer and surrounding communities. I am not against an outreach center for this area, or for a homeless shelter/teen center/food pantry etc. I'm just saying that the proposed project is not a good fit for the Hotel due to the enormous financial burdens already in place.
I also need to comment on Levi944's claim that "a meal, shower and dry place to sleep" are basic human rights. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are your rights. What you do with those rights helps determine your future. When you were in need of help, you received it because someone cared enough to do something. They were not required to do so. I have been in need of help myself in the past, and I've been on the giving end in better times too. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with religious zealots, but your experience was not the norm. People give aid & comfort for many reasons, and I'm sure the Dreamcenter has the best intentions. Don't label them before they've even had a chance to begin their work!
"Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". Those are rights that are completely made up. They existed before the constitution. There is no such thing as rights that somebody can give you, they can only take them away. Nobody has the authority over another to tell them they do or do not have rights, because we make this authority up. Cops, "leaders", and law makers have no more human power than anyone else. We simply give them power over us. Also, the right to life cannot be sustained without food and shelter, so again while you say they are not basic human rights, they are vital parts of the right to life in which you say that we all have. I am gracious for the help I received, and you're right, nobody was required to do anything. I can't imagine anybody going out of their way to help if they had anything but good intentions, so on that note..... yet again, I also believe the dream center has good intentions. However intentions don't necessarily meet the desired results, specifically for the reasons I've already mentioned and explained numerous times. I have not labeled them at all, nor given my opinion based on anything other than what they have already presented.