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Tuesday, Sep. 30, 2014

What do you think about "The Mosque?"

Posted Monday, August 16, 2010, at 4:42 PM

By now I'm sure you've heard about it.

Feisal Abdul Rauf plans to build a $150 million Islamic center two blocks north of Ground Zero where the World Trade Center fell Sept. 11, 2001.

Many people, including prominent politicians, have come out with opinions.

President Barack Obama has endorsed it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZOIBEEvbO0)

Sen. Harry Reid, who normally aligns himself with the President, has come out against it. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-seize-ground-mosque-campaign-issue/story?id=11411490)

People from other countries are formulating and sharing their views. I received this video from a friend.

(http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html)

Speaking of friends, some of mine have used facebook to share their takes on "the mosque."

"Anyone who thinks a mosque shouldn't be built near ground zero is un-American... Does the first amendment mean nothing anymore? >.<" one friend wrote. Three friends of this person shared their agreement and two others "liked" the post.

On the other side of the spectrum, one friend wrote, "We should not be surprised. Obama told us in his own book that when the politicial winds shifted and things got tough, he'd side with the Muslims...... all I can say is that mosque won't be standing long in NYC.... You know someone there will take it into their own hands."

That post only received one comment, which was filled with sarcastic, opposing comments. The original poster later clarified he is not encouraging anyone to take the matter into their own hands, "but knowing the emotion of 9-11, I'm more saying it shouldn't surprise anyone if anyone does."

When I mentioned writing a blog about this, I was asked, "Do you really want to stir things up?" In regard to conversation, yes.

Honestly, I've heard intelligent arguments on both side of the issue and I understand them both. Therefore, I have yet to come down solidly on one side or the other.

This blog is an open invitation to discuss and share your thoughts, opinions, facts you have gathered over the past week or so.

As always, please keep the discussion on topic and respectful.

Thank you.

I look forward to healthy conversation.


Comments
Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

First Amendment promises freedom of religion, not freedom to build a religious building anywhere we want to. If that's the case, it'd be cool if I built a church right in the public school down the street, right?

The fact is the overwhelming number of Americans are against this mosque. Just as we were against ObamaCare, just as we are in favor of the border issue, etc.... Obama has gone against us time and time again.

If the mosque truly wanted to establish "peace", the people behind it would respect the emotional outrage many Americans feel about the idea.

The only reason Obama is against same-sex marriage is because his religion is adamantly against it. That religion, of course, being Islam.

-- Posted by genius25 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 4:51 PM

The Koran (018:021) states: 'Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them;' and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'

This is not a direct commandment to build on a place of victory, but there is a tradition of building mosques to celebrate or symbolize victory.

"The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels."

-- Posted by genius25 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 4:53 PM

I really like this last sentence:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010...

The "religion of peace" has some very violent adherents, and they are increasingly active on U.S. soil. It's a sign of cultural weakness that Americans are afraid to say no to a mosque on the most prominent site of jihadist victory in the United States.

-- Posted by genius25 on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 4:54 PM

I just love the "Obama is a Muslim" posts. They are almost as much fun as the ones that insist that he was born in Kenya.

Manhattan is a small place with a lot of people packed in. Anything on the south end of Manhattan or near the Brooklyn Bridge is going to be a stone's throw from Ground Zero. A lot of people live there, and there might even be a lot of Muslims in the area. Why shouldn't they have places to worship near their homes? Look how many churches we have in Spencer, and it's probably smaller than Manhattan in land area, with a much smaller population.

Honestly, any mosque on the island would probably cause outrage from the religious intolerant.

I do think that it would be pretty cool if they could have religious centers for many religions down in that area. I think that the biggest slap in the face for the terrorists would be to show that we AREN'T divided, and that we embrace the smelting pot that America was founded on.

So many people want to see Muslims as terrorist monsters. Most of them are just regular people just like the rest of us. Murderous maniacs have been killing in the name of religion since the inception of religion. It's time that people of all faiths and no faith remembered that religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

-- Posted by stafinois on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 5:37 PM

I see no problem with a mosque near Ground Zero, on Manhattan, or anywhere else. I do take issue with its proposed site, mainly for the reasons genius25 stated in his/her second post. Why else would it need to be located directly ON the site?

Now, if it were a part of a larger-scale religious site rather than a random mosque amidst everything else, I think more Americans would be open to it. At the former Dachau concentration camp, many chapels have been erected so that visitors may pay their respects. There are representatives of different Christian sects, as well as Jewish ones, and each chapel holds regular services for those who wish to attend. I don't believe there is a mosque, but I don't believe there is a significant Muslim population there. Why can't several religious organizations representing all faiths affected by 9/11 erect their own chapels near Ground Zero, to include a non-religious space to pay respects? Muslims were killed in the WTC that day as well, and it wouldn't be right to exclude those families.

In short, it's not clear what the intent behind the building is, and I don't know that it ever will be. However, that's what makes all the difference, and what makes this situation so controversial.

-- Posted by notinia on Mon, Aug 16, 2010, at 10:10 PM

The proposed site is not directly at Ground Zero. It's a couple of blocks away.

-- Posted by stafinois on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 7:37 AM

It is funny how if someone is a christian or white and against gay marriage they are labeled intolerant by the liberals. If you are a muslim and advocate killing people because they are gay, they liberals want to welcome you with open arms.

Freedom of religion allows us to practice the religion of our choice. Freedom of speech allows us to say almost anything we want, but we have to use good judgment. It is in poor taste to build a Mosque in the vicinity of one of the darkest days in our history. Not to mention the fact that the group of people that plotted and carried out the attack were muslims.

This is yet another example of how ignorant these people are. Evidently 70% of the country is wrong.

-- Posted by DOWNWITHDEMS on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 10:59 AM

Also, where is the funding coming from? This character who wants to build the mosque isn't being upfront about where he's getting his money and he has a questionable past as well......

As for a religious center where different religions can meet, I don't know many people opposed to it.

-- Posted by genius25 on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 12:08 PM

Would it also be in poor taste to open a church near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? The people who plotted and carried out the attacks were Christians.

I'm sure that somebody will point out that McVeigh & company were not true Christians. This is true, and most Muslims in this country will tell you that those behind 9/11 were not true Muslims.

-- Posted by stafinois on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 1:42 PM

Assuming the funding for the mosque was raised privately, I don't think there should be any more controversy for this building permit and approval than there would be for any other building. I also think education about the real tenets of Islam is long overdue in this nation. Maybe it will be a symbol of peace and our (often hidden) ability to co exist with one another.

-- Posted by AmyPeterson on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 2:34 PM

genius25, your comments made me think of Dean Koldenhoven. He was the mayor of Palos Heights, Calif. when a Muslim organization wanted to buy a church and convert it into a mosque. Much of the community, including some of the city council members, were up in arms about it and expected Koldenhoven, a Christian Reformed congregation member, to do the same. He tells about that experience (which resulted in both the organization backing out on their plans and the constituents voting out Koldenhoven after one term) here:http://www.southtownstar.com/news/kadner/2605596,081710kadner.article

He also shares why he supports "the mosque" near Ground Zero and critiques Obama's approach. Please read that story and let me know what you think.

Aimee, you make a very good point about the small land mass of Manhattan. If there are not a lot of Muslims living in the area, such a structure would not be as fitting or appropriate, though I do understand it is also a tourism area, so it would still make some sense.

notinia, the Dachau example makes sense.

DWD, what is the 70 percent number you are using?

Amy, do you disagree with all aspects of the controversy?

Thank you all for conversing thus far. I hope it continues and hopefully others join the chat.

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 5:29 PM

leave grond zero alone let it rest in peace along with the fallen

-- Posted by arlene stewart on Tue, Aug 17, 2010, at 11:28 PM

"Liberty against the lynch mob: which side are you on?"

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/...

-- Posted by JohnnyMetro on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 8:15 AM

I have looked at both sides and am not sure what the controversy is. Clearly the 9/11 terrorists were zealots and extremists (qualities which are usually harmful in ANY religion) and were not following the tenets of Islam. So, for those people who believe a mosque would be in poor taste because the terrorists happened to be Muslim, is to me, an argument that lacks logic and merit.

There are limits to exacting blind judgment on whether a building permit should be issued or not -- a headquarters for an extremist hate group or similar organization would incite problems -- but really, as long as the purposes are lawful and won't disrupt the order of the neighborhood, and the building meets zoning ordinances and local codes, authorities should approve most applications for such permits.

The fact that there are zealots and idiots who might "take matters into their own hands" is notwithstanding. No organization, building, or even individual can be 100% protected from a criminal act of destruction or violence.

-- Posted by AmyPeterson on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 9:09 AM

The GUY WHO IS WANTING TO BUILD THIS MOSQUE DOESN'T EVEN PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE HAMAS IS A TERRORIST GROUP....

Wake up people............ Not only that, but he won't reveal where his funding is coming from....

It's a victory mosque for the Muslims and it doesn't belong at Ground Zero......... Ground Zero should be - SHOULD BE - made some sort of government landmark, therefore public property, therefore no places of worship - just like a public school can't have a church in it.....

Sometimes it takes a person with a spine to be the leader of this country, unfortunately we have another two years to wait until we can replace this spineless president.

-- Posted by genius25 on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 9:16 AM

And whoever thinks it's comical that Obama is Muslim, why would you not think he is? What has he done to show his Christian roots? I mean other than contradict the Bible on a number of issues.... Obama suggested Jesus Christ is not the only way to heaven, but Christians are told by Jesus in the Bible He is "the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Not only that, but more than 25% of Americans now believe he was NOT born in America. I'm not sure. All I know is Kenyan leaders and politicians have said he was born in Kenya. There is no official birth certificate released. There is no birth certificate in any of his documents. A Hawaii elections clerk said there's no birth certificate. In video in her own words Michelle refers to Kenya as Barack's home country........ Obama also has a Connecticut social security number even though he's never lived in Connecticut.... Just sayin'....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=proi6NFdK...

-- Posted by genius25 on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 9:31 AM

So genius25 thinks ground zero should be a shrine and therefore no mosque. The mosque in question is not at ground zero and so there should be no conflict (except for christian zealots who feel that all other religions are a fast track to the devil - such as genius25). Are we now so fearful of muslims that we will throw away our freedoms to protect ourselves from the islamic boogeyman? I personally do not see what the big deal is

-- Posted by DaveMunson on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 5:45 PM

If I may add one more point. Genius25 you claim that Obama is a muslim - I say "so what?". There is nothing that forbids a muslim from being president of the US; in fact the constitution prohibits religious tests for presidents. You may whine and moan that he is trying to push his "muslim agenda" on the country - hopefully that will give you some insight into why people complain when they see politicians trying to push their "christian agenda" on us. Frankly I don't want either.

-- Posted by DaveMunson on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Genius25, go cry with Glen Beck. It's people like you, with your close-mindedness and stubborn qualities, that have the same characteristics as those of Muslim extremists.

You ain't no genius.

-- Posted by JohnnyMetro on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 6:51 PM

Many won't even watch this video due to who is in it, but it includes an aerial map of the area, showing exactly where Ground Zero is, and where this "Mosque" is to be located. It's not very close. It also shows pictures of buildings in the area, and shows how you can't see it from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from there.

Link to video: http://huff.to/axWqV1

As to Obama's lack of a birth certificate...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bir...

I'll bet if Glenn and Rush started saying that Obama was actually a female giraffe from the remote planet Mugafoogia, more than 25% of the population would believe it.

-- Posted by stafinois on Wed, Aug 18, 2010, at 7:22 PM

LOL, Aimee. I agree, the location of the Mosque does have great bearing on the decision. If it is not on the site, I don't believe there is anything that can be done about it. What would be the reasoning?

-- Posted by notinia on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 8:34 AM

Okay Obama-Zombies, let me try this.....

1. That's a copy - a copy - of his birth certificate.. It is not official and could easily be forged. It certainly doesn't explain Michelle's own words where she said she and Barack "visited his HOME COUNTRY of Kenya." And it does not explain his Connecticut social security number....

2. If Obama ran as a Muslim, fine. But Obama tries to pass himself off as some Christian. Personally, I don't like hypocrites and liars and don't believe there's a place for them in any leadership position. Maybe that's just me.

3. There are 100 mosques in NYC, so this is not an issue of "freedom of religion"... It's not Right vs. Left, it's right vs. wrong.

4. Did you people miss the comments from the Imam about how Osama bin Laden is a product of America and we're an accessory to the crime of 9-11??????? Hello......

5. Fewer than half of Democrats believe Obama is a Christian. DEMOCRATS are finally figuring this out. When this country wakes up it will be a great awakening. If we remain in our deep slumber, we'll all be in trouble and our children and grandchildren will not know the America we used to know.

-- Posted by genius25 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:48 AM

Johnny, I haven't blown up anyone. I haven't killed anyone. You Democrats have certainly enabled the murder of millions of unborn babies. So congrats on that.

I am nothing like an Islamic extremist. However, the Imam trying to build this mosque is EXACTLY LIKE THOSE 9-11 TERRORISTS.

He refuses to call Hamas a terrorist group, he said Bin Laden is a product of America and that America is an accessory to the crime of 9-11........

-- Posted by genius25 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:50 AM

Regardless of Obama's religion, I don't think it is a legitimate argument to say he is pushing a Muslim agenda with his support of "The Mosque."

"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there," he said in response to a reporter's question after he spoke about efforts to aid the Gulf Coast region. "I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about."

If he wanted to push the Muslim agenda with the promotion of this center, why wouldn't he use stronger words and actually side with the developers? He's not doing that. He's simply supporting the private sector's rights to build a building.

Personally, I'm not completely comfortable with the idea of a mosque that close to Ground Zero. With that being said, it doesn't really matter if I am comfortable with it. He has a constitutional right to build there. My only hope is that the imam weighs the impact of public opinion before making the final decision. We will see how it plays out.

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM

Just a note: I hope we can keep this from getting too far off topic. Also, if we could refrain from personal attacks, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 12:01 PM

G25, I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I would love it if Obama weren't Christian and was never born in this country. It would be hilarious, because people like you get so upset about it. Thanks.

-- Posted by JohnnyMetro on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 12:35 PM

I remember someone saying that obama was a hypocrite and a liar. Correct me if I'm wrong which I don't think that I am. Isn't that true of all politicians.

-- Posted by buss22 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 1:42 PM

Why will they not let a Russian Orthodox church rebuild? It was there to begin with. The guy wanting to build this mosque is a radical muslim. The 70% number you can find in almost any poll. We can not build a church or even enter Mecca. Yes we have freedom of religion, practice it somewhere else. The sight of an attack carried out by people of their faith and beliefs would in any logical persons mind be a poor choice. The fact that they are so insensitive to that should show you they are not tolerant people. They do not have the constitutional right to build there, they have the constitutional right to practice their religion here. That is different. Everyday the government tells us where and what we can build in a specific place. It is insane that they are not using that power here.

It would be like building a pro Nazi museum in Israel.

-- Posted by DOWNWITHDEMS on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 2:54 PM

It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out!

-- Posted by My__2__Cents on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 4:28 PM

But here's the thing, it's NOT at Ground Zero, and it's not a mosque. It's more like a big YMCA. It will have basketball courts, a gym, an auditorium, a swimming pool, a culinary school, a restaurant, a daycare, plus an area for worship on the upper floors. You have to walk 6 blocks from Ground Zero to get there. You can't see the "mosque" from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the "mosque." There is an active mosque that is actually closer to Ground Zero than this new place will be. The active mosque is so small that their congregation can't be there all at once. It's been there since before the WTC existed.

The bottom line is that it's private property well away from Ground Zero. What ever happened to free enterprise?

Here is the website for the "mosque." It's quite terrifying!

http://www.park51.org

Curious, how many of you have read Mayor Bloomberg's speech? It was very good.

http://bit.ly/abTr2r

-- Posted by stafinois on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 4:30 PM

LOL, DWD, not only is it not the "sight" of the attack, it is not even WITHIN sight of the site of the attack.

Also, I stick by my original suggestion of building a multi-religion memorial set of chapels (to include a non-religious space) if not on, NEAR the site so that people will have a place to pay respects in a quiet area where they feel free to express whatever religion they practice. I mentioned that the same is successful at the Dachau memorial site(funny that you bring up a Nazi site in Israel, DWD, as it was mostly "Christians" that carried out the atrocities there). That could include a mosque, as I'm sure Muslims were among those that worked in and died in the WTC.

-- Posted by notinia on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 5:18 PM

That is what they have done at the Pentagon.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Why no outrage about that?

-- Posted by stafinois on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 9:50 PM

How about those crosses along the highway in Utah? Why were those banned? And Aimee, the speech was good enough to drop Bloomberg's approval rating 14 points overnight.... Great speech...... Imam Obama has got to go.....

Still you people - including you Gabe - have not touched on the comments made by the Imam who wants to build this mosque regarding 9-11.....

-- Posted by genius25 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:24 PM

Oh, and as long as liberals are involved in "debates" Gabe, they'll never avoid personal attacks. It's all they have. They have no facts.

I love the concern for the constitution from these "intellectuals" now, but where was it when ObamaCare was being crafted? Where was it when the gov't was "bailing out" private companies??? Where is it when men can be charged with double murder for killing a pregnant lady but that same pregnant lady could've walked into an abortion clinic that they fund and support by voting for people like Obama the day before and had the kid's brains sucked out and killed and no charges would be filed on anyone??? Where is that concern? Where is that passion?

-- Posted by genius25 on Thu, Aug 19, 2010, at 11:26 PM

genius, how are your referrals to liberals "having no facts", and mocking some as "intellectuals" not considered personal attacks? I don't believe any of those you deem liberal on here have attacked anyone. I'm certainly no liberal, but what makes you think Gabe's request to stay respectful was only directed at one side of the debate?

I'm just as against a MOSQUE ON GROUND ZERO as you are. However, since we're talking about facts, it is neither a mosque or on the site. Therefore, I don't believe there is anything we are within our rights to do.

As far as the abortion debate goes, there is plenty of passion there, from both sides. Where have you been the last 30 years or so??

-- Posted by notinia on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 8:27 AM

Wow all this hate we are all surely doomed. Dont even know where to begin because hate has clouded good peoples minds and judgements. The mosque is blocks away from ground zero, and the only reason this is even an issue is the extremist christians just like the extremist muslims would love a holy war. God is better than Allah, well you know what they are the same entity. Just two different ways of reaching him. And it seems not only muslims but any religion without Jesus are evil doers too now, so jews, hindus, buddhists watch out after we take out the muslims your next. I love it how people actually believe some of the things they do about Obama. He is no more evil than GWB. Who gives a F if he his a muslim which he clearly is not. Remeber what would Jesus do? And before you answer I doubt he would say kill the gays and muslims, lets rape our earth for all its worth, and lets value money over human life. He would actually say the opposite. Let the gays get civil unions, let the muslims have their mosques, lets preserve the resources of the earth, and lets throw all the money away because it means nothing. Remeber we are all screwed untill the one becomes and than you shall all see love in all its glory.

-- Posted by iamsmarterthanyou on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 10:38 AM

Iam - you're wrong. Jesus said that is why they were created the way they were by God. So a man will leave his mother and father and be joined with a woman and the two shall become one. Jesus is God and God is strongly opposed to homosexuality.

Jesus said He is "the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the FATHER (heaven) except through ME (JESUS)."

Okay, it's a "community center" with a MOSQUE inside of it.

And still, no comments regarding the man's comments about 9-11. You folks still choose to ignore FACTS.

And I stand by my comment that liberals don't use facts, they use emotion. They don't use logic, they use emotion. They turn every issue into something where one side is always the victim.

Bottom line is this, nobody - NOBODY - is stopping people from being Islamic. Nobody is stopping them from going to any of the other more than 100 mosques already in NYC. So it's not a freedom of religion issue - it's a taste issue. It's a class issue.

This president is weak against terror. He refused to call the Fort Hood Islamic terrorist an Islamic terrorist. He refused to call the panty bomber an Islamic terrorist. He refused to call the NY Times Square bomber an Islamic terrorist. In fact - there's that word again FACT - he went so far as to say we should withhold our judgements until facts are released. This is the same moron who got up at a podium and said "I do not know all of the facts, but the Cambridge police acted stupidly" when dealing with his friend.

This president has decided to fight the people at every single turn. The people are extremely close to fighting back and it won't take much more. His lackluster response to the oil spill, his ramming through health care, bail outs, the lack of economic uptick, his American apology tour, etc......

-- Posted by genius25 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 11:38 AM

DWD, you keep saying 70 percent of the nation is wrong. Do you mean they support the center or are against it? I'm also wondering why it matters where the religion is practiced. Does the freedom of religion only apply to certain sectors of America?

Not that far away from this site is one of the greatest reminders of American freedom, the Statue of Liberty. Isn't it spitting in her face to deny that freedom to some because of some of the people they happen to share their religion with? I definitely don't approve of all the people (or their actions) who I share Christianity with, but that doesn't mean I would oppose the building of a church anywhere. So, if I wouldn't oppose a place of worship for my own religion with ties to nut jobs, isn't it hypocritical to oppose a place of worship for a different religion, which some nut jobs claim?

It sounds like you bemoan that "everyday the government tells us where and what we can build in a specific place" and then you turn around and beg them to use that power here and call them "insane" for not doing so. That sounds like quite the double standard. Oppose something when it opposes you and your views, but call for it when it serves your interests.

Naziism is not a religion, as notinia pointed out. Many of them claimed Christianity, as have others involved in "ethnic cleansing" (AKA genocide) and yet like she pointed out there is a Christian chapel at Dachau. Is that not a fair comparison?

G25, if you were a Palestinian, you probably wouldn't consider Hamas a terrorist group, either. Likely you would think of them as freedom fighters standing up against the brute force of -- and support behind -- Israel. That alone does not make him a terrorist or terrorist supporter. As for disclosing where the funding is coming from, he should have to disclose as much as any other developer. There are a lot of lowlife developers all across America and they should all come under the same scrutiny. But, at the end of the day, they are developing and adding to the tax base (unless they're nonprofit organizations, of course.)

To quote you from past conversations, "Two wrongs don't make a right." Crosses shouldn't be forced down, nor should any other religious symbol or facility. But that doesn't mean a new activity center that includes a mosque should be denied on that merit. If it was a Christian center, I'm guessing you would strongly support it.

In closing, as long as humans are involved in debates, they should avoid personal attacks. I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, blue, red or purple. Every side can claim the other side has no facts, even as both sides share facts, with their perspectives attached.

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM

G25, I missed this quote when I responded to your thoughts on the Imam: "He said Bin Laden is a product of America and that America is an accessory to the crime of 9-11." I'm not a conspiracy theorists, but they're out there and they agree with this guy. Would you track all of them down and deny them building permits?

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 11:51 AM

First and foremost, purple people should always be able to use personal attacks. It must be rough being purple.

Gabe, you still didn't address the Imam's comments that Osama bin Laden was made in America, that America is an accessory to 9-11, etc....

Are you saying you don't believe Hamas is a terrorist group???? That's outrageous. It is recognized BY AMERICA - you know that country where he wants to build his mosque - as a terrorist group that is also fighting a war against terrorism... Is this really that difficult... If it is, I can't imagine how tough multiplication and division must have been in school...... (PS - I'm giving you a hard time, not being mean buddy)....

As for two wrongs making a right - that's again not the issue. It's called precedent. A precedent has been/is being set that religious symbols are not allowed in public - anywhere....

We don't have to track them all down Gabe, we just have to make sure we get the obvious ones..... America has lost its spine. This country cannot survive without it. It doesn't have the same swagger it did when it was great and I'm afraid it won't if we continue focusing on all of America's "past problems" rather than all of its past success. No country - NO COUNTRY - in the world has been as beneficial to humanity as this country.

When did life expectancy in the world boom? When America was formed. Like Rick Santorum said, is this a coincidence that life improved so much AFTER America came to be? No it was not. Because of America people are living healthier, more free, better and quite frankly more fun than they were in the past....

This is the greatest country in the world. And this country was attacked by ISLAMIC TERRORISTS on 9-11. Now ISLAM wants to build a victory mosque near the site because they view it as victory and want to follow the command in the Koran to build a victory mosque anywhere one is achieved against infidels.

-- Posted by genius25 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 1:09 PM

Oh, and Beck and Rush have NEVER said Obama is/was a Muslim. NEVER.

-- Posted by genius25 on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 1:11 PM

"This president is weak against terror. He refused to call the Fort Hood Islamic terrorist an Islamic terrorist. He refused to call the panty bomber an Islamic terrorist. He refused to call the NY Times Square bomber an Islamic terrorist."

Should we refer to incidents like this as attacks by Christian Terrorists? His Facebook page has a status update about Jesus helping him through a tough day, so we can guess that he identified himself as a Christian.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/18/texa...

-- Posted by stafinois on Fri, Aug 20, 2010, at 5:36 PM

Suicide, like murder, is strongly condemned in the Bible Aimee. And, again, it's easy to "guess" or "say" a person is Christian, but as Obama is finding out, it's much more difficult to show it - especially when you're not.

-- Posted by genius25 on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 3:56 PM

Genius, if you truly don't see the hypocrisy in your most recent post, I am dumbfounded...

-- Posted by notinia on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 7:51 PM

I hate to break it to you, but suicide and murder are strongly condemned in the Koran, too.

If people would just take off their blinders, they would discover that the messages of the religions of the sons of Abraham are all more similar than they are different.

-- Posted by stafinois on Sat, Aug 21, 2010, at 8:53 PM

There is a mosque about four blocks from ground zero. It is too small for the congregation, only 1/4th can go to service at a time. The Community Center for all faiths, will be on the bottom several floors, with swimming pools and gym and basketball courts for everyone in the community. The upper floors will be a mosque so all can go to services at the same time. I would much rather have a mosque built by moderate American Muslims close to ground zero, instead of a strip club and an OTB, which is closer to ground zero.

to Genius, of course you can't build a church on a school. However, if you have proper permits and can buy the land,. you can put a Church whereever you want. That's freedom of religion.

-- Posted by wahela on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 11:55 AM

In the United States of America freedom of religon is only applicable to Christians.

-- Posted by kojackcolumbo on Sun, Aug 22, 2010, at 9:20 PM

70 % of the country is against it, just like 70. % of the country is for the Arizona law. Look at it this way, a sixteen year old kid can drive. He has the legal right. Would you let your sixteenn year old drive your brand new car acrooss the country with their friends? Yes muslims have the right to worship here. It is just not an appropriate place. Our government and our citizens need to grow a pair. It is ok to say no, it doesn't mean you are a biggot or hate people. This has already played out in Europe. They have courts for shariah law, because God forbid we actually make people change their lifestyle. I don't want shariah law here, we probably are not far away though. We already bend over backwords for everyone but the taxpayers.

-- Posted by DOWNWITHDEMS on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 5:18 AM

DWD, you fail to recognize that we do not have direct control over whether or not they build there, unlike control you may have over your 16 year old. Heck, some people don't even have control over their 16 year olds! Apples and oranges, my friend...

-- Posted by notinia on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 1:06 PM

I agree with kojakcolumbo.

-- Posted by RazzTheKid on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 1:14 PM

Here is something to chew on..This come from Canada and its pretty interesting to say the least.

http://www.pointdebasculecanada.ca/breve...

Enjoy!

-- Posted by daronmeyer on Mon, Aug 23, 2010, at 8:58 PM

Wahela, do you think an interfaith center with places of worship for people of all faiths would be a better option rather than a community center for people of all faiths with only a mosque included? I think I would like to see the former rather than the latter.

Daron, thank you for that link. I hadn't heard that yet, though it is already two weeks old. That puts it in a totally different light and adds a perspective that non-Muslims obviously cannot see.

O'Reily made an interesting comment about construction crews in New York not being willing to build this project. What do you think about that? Is that a valid argument? According to his numbers, only 26 percent of New Yorkers support the center, but that percentage could include an owner of a construction company, couldn't it? Granted, he did say union workers, and that would change the equation. It's an aspect I had never thought of before.

Overall, it seems like we have come to a consensus of sorts: the Imam has the constitutional right to build the center there. We of course will continue to disagree on whether or not it is right, but it seems like even on that front most of us are not completely comfortable with the idea for one reason or another.

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 11:12 AM

I'm new and just took a moment to review a few blogs.

The only reason that the Imam "appears" to have a 1st Amendment right to build his mosque, is because our laws are premised on people behaving in an above board manner regarding issues concerning religious freedom--that premise was established by our distinctly Christian heritage over the last 400 years.

However, as the Canadian Muslim group cited above has noted, Raul's intent is not religious, but political--and only geared to incense Americans and provide a "victory trophy" to hardline Islamic fundamentalists abroad.

It's too bad that our modern culture is unable to distinguish religion that promotes peace and harmony between people, from one that practices "Dawa" AKA "Stealth Jihad" in order to establish "Shariah Law" where no one but Muslim males have any rights--everyone else is a 2nd class citizen--barely worthy of life at all.

Don't take my word for it, read Raul's books for yourselves. If you really want a dose of reality have someone who reads Arabic translate Raul's middle east version of his work for you. His American editions are "Americanized" so that folks won't get too alarmed by his plans for us.

-- Posted by pastorpatrick43 on Tue, Aug 24, 2010, at 6:09 PM

The real issue here is that building the Mosque two blocks from Ground Zero is in POOR TASTE! I also agree with the theory that the Mosque is being built as a sign of Mohommedian victory. The people of NYC do not need the Islamics peeing on their legs and telling them it's raining.

I believe in our Constitution but I see this not as a religous freedom issue but as a common sense issue. Anyone want to "pop" a common sense hand grenade?

-- Posted by SSGM270 on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 10:54 AM

Is it possible that much of this "mosque" controversy leads right back to Fox News? Jon Stewart thinks so. If you're interested in his thoughts or just want to lighten the mood a bit, check out this link.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-au...

-- Posted by Gabe Licht on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 11:15 AM

SSGM, I agree that it may be in poor taste, but it is not up to us when to enforce religious freedom.

-- Posted by notinia on Thu, Aug 26, 2010, at 12:01 PM

Notinia, I disagree in this instance when it seems like common sense has disappeared like a fart in the wind. Why is/was the Christian Church that was destroyed on 9-11 being denied permission to build?

If that Church was allowed to build as soon as possible after 9-11 I might not be so opposed to the Mosque.

Also FOX News is reporting much of what the left won't.

-- Posted by SSGM270 on Fri, Aug 27, 2010, at 10:46 AM

One thing is since the church was actually right at Ground Zero, there might be some zoning issues. Even Fox News is reporting that there is something going on between the Port Authority and Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, where apparently the Port Authority was to give up to $60 million dollars between rebuilding the church in a new location and constructing a bombproof platform underneath.

OTOH, Park 51 is being built several blocks from the site (different zoning issues) in a privately owned building. They aren't having issues with money tied up with the Port Authority.

It's apples and oranges.

-- Posted by stafinois on Sat, Aug 28, 2010, at 11:30 AM

Apples and oranges huh? Wow! I think there is bias against Christians and Jews. The property is owned by the Church. It was perfectly ok prior to 9-11 to be there. Why so not now? Start cranking on the followers of Mohammad and liberals come out of the woodwork and throw slings and arrows untill the criticizors are browbeaten into submission. Bang on the Christians and Jews and not a peep from the liberal cartoon world.Part of The problem is the leadership in the city and state of New York. It seems to me there are some rotten apples and oranges in the bunch there in new York and they need someone with a much better grip on what the citizens want, not the elite people who are out of touch with the people and reality.

-- Posted by SSGM270 on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 10:03 AM

Do you seriously not see the difference between private funding and government funding and how that might effect building plans?

-- Posted by stafinois on Sun, Aug 29, 2010, at 12:55 PM

I seriously do know the difference! It's still WRONG!

-- Posted by SSGM270 on Thu, Sep 2, 2010, at 10:42 PM

>Clearly the 9/11 terrorists were zealots and

>extremists (qualities which are usually harmful in

>ANY religion) and were not following the tenets of

>Islam.

The "extremist" Catholic becomes a Trappist monk. The "extremist" Baptist uses a King James Bible only, and goes to church on Sunday and Wednesday. The "extremist" Hindu makes a pilgrimage to the Ganges river and is a strict vegetarian.

The "extremist" Muslim blows up the World Trade Center.

As the children's song goes, "one of these things is not like the other."

-- Posted by Amacx86 on Wed, Jan 12, 2011, at 9:00 AM


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As the junior staff writer here at The Daily Reporter, I enjoy interacting with my readers. This blog will allow me to do that. Whether voicing my opinion and looking for response or asking readers to weigh in on a specific topic I am writing about, I look forward to getting to know my readers and what they think.
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