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Make-up snow daysPosted Tuesday, February 9, 2010, at 10:51 AM
Including this Friday and Monday, there are at least 9 vacation or in-service days left in the school year. I think those should be make-up days for snow days. I realize that some will say those are written in to contracts etc. but why can that not be negotiated since it has been an unusual amount of snow days? I think that option should always be written in. I would rather have my kids make them up now than after Memorial Day. Anyone wanna weigh-in? And while we're at it, why can't in-service days be done during the summer so as to not affect the school year?
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Anything at all.
I was raised on the same farm on which my dad was born. My parents still live there today. I graduated from Eastwood High in 1987 and from Eastern Wyoming College with a degree in Criminal Justice in 1989. I married Randy 19 long years ago and we have 6 children ranging in age from 3 to 18 years old. I have worked numerous jobs from detassling as a teenager, a legal secretary in California, church secretary in Iowa to a daycare provider now. I love being outside and hate doing women stuff inside. I would rather mow the lawn than do dishes or change the tire on my van than sort socks. I am patriotic, opinionated and sometimes loud. I am also a great mom, good friend and I love to laugh - I did marry Randy. I believe in common sense versus reading a book by some "expert". I don't pretend to have all the answers but I am willing to ask the questions that others are afraid to ask and sometimes to my detriment say the things that others only think about saying. I try to avoid confrontation but sometimes it finds me and almost all the time it is necessary to stimulate communication.
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I haven't looked at the calendar, but are you including the Friday and Monday surrounding Easter in your nine day total? Should we be having school on those days? I believe this Friday is an exchange day that would have compensated for the evening conferences the teachers had after a full day of teaching. I think that already could be taken out as they will have had plenty of time to rest up this week.
I would say Monday, President's Day, does not have to be an automatic day off school, even though my high school son is going on a Mount Kato ski trip that day that was promised as part of his birthday gift.
I also believe the rest of the in-service days could be exchanged for class time, and in general, that additional days in August or May/June could be used for the in-service days rather than having so many spread throughout the school year.
I think it's been an extraordinary school year and that should call for extraordinary flexibility and cooperation. I want the teachers to have their right to a living wage and benefits for the important task of educating our children, but I also think for the good of our already struggling district and the missed days due to an extraordinary winter, they should be willing to attend in-services at the end of the year and beginning of next and get the required classroom time in, preferably sometime before Flag Day.
I have always wondered myself and questioned the in-service days. Parents have complained for years about teachers not being in school for the full day during in-service days.
In-service days can't be done in the summer, for the most part, because the work that is supposed to be accomplished during them is related to timely matters such as midterm grading, conferences, etc that just can't be accomplished during school time. Sometimes continuing ed classes are scheduled for those days because they aren't available from whatever institution provides them in the summer. I suppose you could make an argument if the teachers in the Spencer district aren't there most of the day, but that isn't the case everywhere.
Using holidays or inservice days for make up may sound like a great idea, but there are many parents (and teachers) who have already made plans for those days (trips, etc.) so many students may miss those days (and yes the same could be said for the end of the year but hopefully parents realize by now that there will be make up days practically every year). Some inservice days are mandated by the state - so they could not be used for make up. Using the half day inservices would not gain anything as far as make up goes. Those days already count, so extending them to full days would not take away any snow days (although it would be nice to lose those and have school the full day). Perhaps some snow days could be built into the schedule from the outset. Many schools do this - if the days are not used, then students get out a few days earlier at the end of the year. We use several snow days every year, it only makes sense to plan ahead.
Actually the state mandates the number of in-service hours. This is a state issue, not a local school district issue. Also the in-services that are held directly relate back to mandated teacher requirements and are not days that teachers are allowed to waste away. The items that are covered in in-services are typically strategies that need or have to be enacted in the classroom - such as a new reading strategy.
I know of plenty of teachers that would agree in that they don't want to be going to school into the summer either.
With regard to in-service days...the Cherokee school is using their's for makeup days...
Local districts have no control over the amount of in-service days, etc. Believe it or not, in-service days are actually used to better our practice in the classroom. Having all in-service days in the summer is a ridiculous idea- usually teachers take what they learn in in-service and immediately apply it in the classroom. This could not be done in June and July, obviously. I would strongly suggest making sure you know the necessary information and having your ducks in a row before starting a discussion like this; it sure would benefit all involved!
I have to agree with teacher03--having all of our in-service days at the end of the school year and before our summer break would be ridiculous. It would be similiar to making your child go to job training and then wait for three months before they actually start the job and can use that information.
In-Service days aren't the most fun thing for teachers to be doing with their days; most would rather be teaching, but unfortunately the state requires us to have a set number of in-service hours just like the students are required to have school for a set number of days.
This winter has been filled with an unusually high amount of winter weather and school districts are trying to cope with as best as possible. They are under pressure to get the required days in for students and teachers, while also trying trim money from their budgets. Having classes into June won't be fun for anyone, but we're trying to educate the students as best as we can--which is what is most important.
I do understand the idea that in-services provide valuable training that teachers will want to implement right away (though I question whether a teacher who's already made their lesson plans throughout the summer, which we're told is the diligent work teachers are doing with their summer breaks, in addition to continuing education, would really change course during the year based on something in a one-day class).
Since that's the case, it makes sense for teachers to report back to school earlier in August so they can have all the in-service training to pump them up for the beginning of the school year.
I'm not sure what's wrong with that idea. Maybe it won't be fun for teachers to be in the buildings that early, but the principals are in the building all summer, and my father was a guidance counselor and back in the day, he reported to his building two full weeks before the week school started. It can be done.
lakewriter, many of us do spend time in the summer in the building, as well as at home. As it is, most of the area schools begin sometime around the 22nd of August, teachers report two weeks earlier, and some earlier than that to get things in order. That's just the required date, and some schools do have training at the beginning of the year.
I'm not sure where the readers of this paper get their information about local teachers, but I can tell you the habits of a few that may be lazy don't speak for us all, and that hearsay isn't everything. I get a little tired of hearing about how diligently we "supposedly" work, but really don't etc every time there is an education story. I suppose nobody likes to hear of their peers being run down, but it seems to happen on this site to city administrators and teachers pretty often. Sorry for the gripe, but its something I've been noticing a lot of lately.
notinia, It is not that I want to run down teachers. Both my parents were teachers/guidance counselors at various points in their careers and I do admire the work teachers do -- I couldn't do it.
My issue is with the legal requirements for so much in-service time. If teachers are already skilled teachers, why must they have so very much extra instruction throughout the year.
For beginning teachers, I wish Spencer had a mentoring program so a veteran teacher could work one-on-one with the new teacher. That would be a much more effective way to get the new teachers up to speed and then we'd have quality across the board in teaching.
Again, my issues are not with the teachers themselves, but with the requirements that probably overload the teachers with a lot of boring and useless instruction, and take away from our children's classroom learning time.
Especially with the way our winter has gone, maybe it's the state department of education that needs to ease the in-service requirement so a school district's limited funds can go to what really matters in our schools, getting our class time in, and not sticking teachers in these unnecessary classes.
My question is how can some school districts change the set calendar and make a regular school day into an in-service day for some reason if the state regulates the in-service days.
This issue of the in-service days need to be addressed by the state level and in situations such as the over abundance of snow make up days they need to have an alternative solution. And school districts should also look at the option of making a week at the end of the regular school year as snow makeup days so parents and teachers alike can keep that week open for the possibility. This should not really be problematic as it is Iowa. We should expect the worst snow.
So forget the in-service idea as it seems NO ONE has that answer but what about using this Friday, next Monday and Spring Break as makeup days? The excuse that some people plan vacations is just not good enough because some people plan vacations right at the end of the school year so what difference does that make. Go on your vacation and have your kid make up the work. My nephews attend two other schools in the state and they will be in school Monday and they only get Easter Sunday for a vacation due to their snow days.
It's not that NO ONE has the aanswer; it's the fact that choice is not the best solution, nor is taking away multiple days that have been scheduled for vacation days. It is feasible to take away a future day, IF you give families plenty of notice. However, why would we encourage people to just "go on vacation and have your kid make up the work."?!?! That is a terrible message to send to a student. Will school be missed sometimes? Yes. But why TELL them to do it? That's ridiculous.
So it's better to not plan a vacation at the end of the school year as custom? How does one time period take precedence over another? Summertime is traditional for vacation time not the school year.
Lakewriter - actually there is a mentoring program happening that is a requirement for first and second year teachers. I believe this is now a standard statewide as I have been told that all first and second year teachers have to go through the trainings and they are paired with a teacher. I know that the Iowa Music Association also has their own mentoring program in addition to the one required of schools.
In terms of the scheduling, I think the best thing to keep in mind is that this winter is NOT the norm. When was the last time any of us saw a winter with this kind of snow pack? It's few and extremely far between. I don't think it's a matter of not scheduling a vacation at the end of the school year, but knowing that this year winter has just been a bad one from beginning to end and we all just have to work with what's handed to us. If that means going to school into the summer, so be it. No one is going to be happy, but it's not the norm and I'm sure we won't see a winter like this again for decades to come.
Yes this is a special winter, but no that does not mean we take away the Easter vacation just to avoid going to school in June. Most years going to school in June is not an issue. However, this year a lot of students will be in school in June. Changing the schedule and taking away Easter vacation does not make sense. A lot of families travel to go see other family members over that weekend. This is the only long weekend in the second semester of the school year which makes it the only weekend where people can go visit loved ones. Yes, there have been a lot of long weekends due to snow days - but those haven't allowed for any travel. If a parent schedules a vacation the first week of June then I guess they take a chance with it interfering with add-on days. However, when a parent gets the school calendar and sees that there is a 4-day weekend around Easter then I see no problem with planning a vacation because you know that there is a snow day.
Everyone seems to be making a huge deal with these snow days and going to school in June. Well, hold on tight because our lawmakers are talking about passing a law that does not allow us to start school so early in August. If that happens, then get ready to be in school in June no matter what. The snow days are not a big issue - it's a special year. Instead, write to your legislators and let them know that you oppose pushing the start of the year back. Otherwise June school days will be the norm!
My children go to Clay Central/Everly and every year we have built in snow days, if that's what you want to call them. This year we only had 3 and we used them up quickly! In the past, we have had more but never needed to use them. There are certain days (like the Monday and Tuesday after Easter) that we are scheduled not to have school. On our Calendar it will say no school unless a snow makeup day. I think more schools should do this! After all, we live in Iowa and as we all know, anything can happen! This is the first year, that I can remember, that my kids will be going later. May 27th so far!
Why not schedule summer vacation a couple of weeks AFTER school gets out just in case? This IS Iowa, after all. I would think that potential extended snow days are something that can be expected.
"And school districts should also look at the option of making a week at the end of the regular school year as snow makeup days so parents and teachers alike can keep that week open for the possibility. This should not really be problematic as it is Iowa. We should expect the worst snow"
I agree with Aimee- yes, maybe school districts should take that into account, but parents (who schedule the vacations) need to do so as well. I don't think the district needs to mandate common sense, which is the category expecting a few missed days of school falls under in Iowa. This was an exceptional winter, though, so some conflicts are to be expected. Live and learn, right?
hawkeyemom is absolutely right- starting school in September, as is being discussed, means school in June every year. I don't see the problem with going in June, either. Its usually much more pleasant then than the end of August, which gets so sultry and hot. The district I currently work for doesn't begin school until September 15th, and gets out this year on June 17. The climate here is much the same as Iowa's, save the humidity in the summer.
Leah - I actually agree with you on this. It would be nice to build in, even just a couple, of make-up snow days that could be listed into the school calendar. In that way parents could have the choice of scheduling a vacation during that time or not. If it becomes a snow day they risk missing that day, or maybe two days tops. Which by the way, I don't always think of as a negative thing; it's ok for kids to miss a little time from school to be with family or see different parts of the world and have learning experiences outside of the classroom. I am thankful for my parents allowing me to miss some school to travel the world and to learn things about other cultures that I couldn't learn from any book.
I do have motives behind my statement though. I was one of those parents who scheduled a vacation (a 15 day one for that matter) out of the country starting May 23. Why did I do that, 1 - I am a mother of a 1st grader, I had never seen school go so far into June - nor did I realize that was even a possibility (ignorance on my part!) and 2 - air travel & accommodations are SO MUCH cheaper when scheduled as early into May as possible, plus at many places the weather is nicer! I personally would like to see added days during the school year - spread out a bit more, as someone like my son will likely now miss a lot of school. Again, I'm not blaming that on anyone or the school district, it was my choice to do that... But I also was one of those people not aware of how far into June this could possibly go. I'd even be up for Saturday school. I could get a lot done around the house then ;) and I think it would actually be beneficial for my son to have that extra learning time during the school year rather than the summer when it can get uncomfortably hot - which can also cause school cancelation, and of course their little minds start to wander off to la-la land the closer we get to summer break! (Teachers please don't shoot me for that statement - I know you treasure your Saturdays as much as I do!)
Again, just my opinion, but I think it would be great to have the possibility to spread out some of the possible snow days we might have in future years. Luckily for those of us who did schedule vacations into late May and early June, the teachers and admin at Spencer have been wonderful getting my son prepared for the time he will miss and helping us devise a plan that will allow him to be able to do some fun things with school & learning while on our vacation. I guess the best thing we can do as parents and living in what seems to have turned into Alaska - is to become proactive in talking with our children's teachers about learning opportunities and being involved in these types of discussions to help come up with the best options and ideas for teachers, students and so that school administration can devise plans that work for a majority of it's students. No one policy is ever going to fit for every family, but if they find one that works for most that's all we can ask for.
If the school would add an hour every other day to their school days, I think it would make up some days without having to worry about when to add days on or change the school calendar.
When I was a kid, I had some friends that went to South Clay, and they DID have school on at least one Saturday to make up for snow days. So, it's not entirely unheard of!
Aimee - I was one of those students at South Clay that had to go on a Saturday. I don't really remember it, but I'm sure it wasn't any fun to miss Saturday morning cartoons.
Saturday school would not be better than "summer school" in late may or early June. I can't imagine students minds would wander any less in a classroom on a Saturday than they would in a classroom on June 1.
The state needs to give school districts more freedom in deciding their academic calendars. The districts also need to be responsible when making their schedules. A four day weekend in the middle of February doesn't make any sense to me. I know we didn't get one when I was in school. We didn't even get Presidents' Day off, let alone the Friday before it.
I think the parents are more upset about the kids going longer than the kids themselves! I know when I was in school (cause it was soooo long ago ;p) it didn't matter we just added a couple more days onto our countdown. But we also didn't call off for every single little bit of snow we received. We had quite a few half days... but we didn't get a lot of days off that we probably should have.
pnissen, the rule is 180 days, and it doesn't mandate a number of hours that I know of. Late starts and early dismissals still count as a day.
The problem that I see with making up snow days at the end of the years is most parents have Memorial day off. That means they have one extra day of vacation (counting Saturday and Sunday prior) that they do not have to use PTO or personal days. I, for one, usually use that weekend and into the week as a beginning-of-summer camping trip for our family. We take off on Friday from home and return late Wednesday so my husband only has to use 2 days of PTO. If the kids go back to school after Memorial Day there goes our extended camping trip. And as Vanessa pointed out, rates are much cheaper before June's seasonal rush.
when may comes around most of the kids stop leaning when its 65 to 70 out they are not thinking about school they have on there minds baseball out side fun do we really need all thses days off from school when june comes around how are the teachers going to keep them on school work they will want to be outside not in a classroom when its nice out side.
When I was in school here in spencer we never had this many snow days. Acctually I don't remember us ever getting out of school the last Wednesday of every month early. I realize that the teachers have rthings to do and that it was others that decided this was a good thing to do. Teaching is one of the hardest things to do because you have to make plans to fill the days and to do it properly as well. This is a topic that won't get solved so people need to take it as it is and your kids will be going into school until June. Just deal with it cause complaining about it and trying to find a way to have your kids get out of school in May won't work. They already have 6 days to make up. I know teachers don't want to go to school that late. And to say that teachers don't do anyrthing during the inservices and during the summer is lame. I know many teachers that are going to school to get things ready for their classroom during the summer
As a high school teacher I want people to realize that the purpose of inservice is to train teachers on new strategies that will help them become better teachers. Whenever I hear about parents complaining about our inservice days I wonder why they wouldn't want their children to get the best possible education? Parents expect us to get up every day and teach their children - they will let us know if we aren't meeting their expectations, yet they think inservice is a waste of time. It does not make sense to me. Give me one example of another job where ongoing training is not a necessity. You would not want a doctor to do all of his/her training in August and then ignore any of the new research or methods throughout the year, so why are teachers different? We are spending 7-8 hours a day with your children. Don't you want us to have the top knowledge and teaching skills to provide your children with a top-notch education?
As a parent, I know that it is difficult to find daycare for my children on inservice and snow days. However, I would much rather have my children gaining a quality education from well-trained teachers, then sitting in a classroom with a teacher using outdated teaching methods. Yes, this year has been inconvenient. That's the great thing about Iowa - you never know what the winter is going to bring. If you don't like all of the snow days then you should probably move out of Iowa!
You are right, I AM required to have a set number of hours of training every year but it is on my own time, on my own dime. It doesn't require that I take time away from my daycare kids but time away from my family.
Except, Leah, that you are not employed by a state-run facility. If there is a problem with how your program is set up, you can take it up with them; however, that doesn't mean all continuing education needs to happen the same way.
While we're on the subject of losing time with our families, don't snow days provide extra family time, at least with some families? How about inservice days (except for the teachers), holidays, etc? Why are we complaining about these again?
Des Moines is extending the school day by a half hour to make up snow days. Can something like this be done?
Leah many professionals are trained at their employer's expense during their regular work day. You do your training on your own time and own dime because you are self employed.
All school districts around are having this same problem. No matter what is decided, nobody is going to be completly happy. We live in Iowa so snow days are a given and we have to make them up. You can take away vacation days and then you have the problem of a lot of students/teachers being gone. Then it is waste of time to teach anything new, becuase you will have to re-teach it. No matter when the last week of school is students are going to be unfocused! So wether it is after Memorial Day or before, it won't matter!
Leah - I understand that you think all of these extra make-up days are inconvenient, but it amazes me at how ungrateful you are towards teachers and their inservice days. Yes, I understand that you do your training on your own "time and dime" and it takes you away from your family. Yes my inservice days are a part of the work day, but let's look at all of the other things that I do on my own time as a teacher. There are very few nights when I do not take something home to work on. Whether it's lesson plans or grading work I usually have some work to do each evening. I also devote numerous evenings throughout the school year to attending volleyball, football, basketball, baseball, and softball games. I also like to attend the band/vocal concerts. Why do I do all of this? Because as a teacher, it is my job to show those students that I care about them not only as students, but as individuals. Who pays for all of these extra evenings? My family - because instead of staying home with them I am toting them along with me to do my job.
The job of a teacher does not start at 8:00 a.m. and end at 4:00 p.m. Instead it is a 24/7 job. I am constantly thinking about how I can make things better for all of my students. I only hope you can take the time to stop and thank your children's educators because they are doing so much more than simply teaching your children. They are putting everything they have into helping your children realize their full potential. So, do teachers need in-service days throughout the school year? They sure do - they deserve to get training that will help them do their jobs better.
Also - I think the same thing about my daycare provider. As a mother, I think she is an amazing woman and deserves to have days off throughout the year - even if it is inconvenient for me to find an alternative place to take my children. She takes care of my children every day and for that I am eternally grateful. It amazes me that you don't have the same feelings towards your children's teachers.
This may be getting a bit off topic, but I want to address Hawkeyemom's statements about caring for students not only as students but as individuals, attending their events, etc. to show she cares.
I think that's great for her, but my children get plenty of attention and nurturing at home. I actually don't want teachers to get to know my kids as individuals -- I want them to impart the knowledge they will need in their future lives. Nurturing is a family's job. Imparting knowledge is a teacher's job. It is a very important job, but it should be limited to the school day and school related things.
I really don't like it when my children come home and say they had some kind of personal conversation with a teacher. Not that we have anything to hide or that I've asked them to keep secrets, but I do not understand why teachers develop a personal relationship with my children when they are plenty nurtured at home and don't need the help that children from troubled homes might need.
I never reached out to form a personal connection with my teachers growing up, or even in college. I studied, took my grade, and went home.
I HAVE A 7 YEAR OLD SON WHO IS BEHIND HIS CLASSMATES AS FAR AS DEVELOPING,AND WE FEEL HE NEEDS TO BE IN SCHOOL AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.THE SNOW DAYS,THE IN-SERVICES, REALLY PUT A DAMPER ON HIS AND OTHER CHILDREN THAT NEED MORE HELP.WHY CANT THEY MAKEUP THEIR DAYS DURING EASTER VACATION? DOES IT ACTUALLY NEED TO BE THAT LONG?MANY OF US PARENTS HAVE REQUESTED OUR VACATIONS SO OUR CHILDREN CAN GO TOO,HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE WHEN AND IF THEY GO LONGER THEN USUAL?
Something I was taught in my classes that prepared me to be a teacher:
"Students will never care how much you know until they know how much you care."
Take a poll of 100 high school students and I would bet that over 90% of them would prefer to be in a classroom with a teacher who shows interest in the lives of his/her students. I still focus my time in the classroom on teaching, but connecting with students is a huge key to teaching them.
lakewriter - I'm glad you nurture your children and feel they don't need additional nurturing at school. However, I challenge you to walk into a school building and witness firsthand the numerous students who do not receive that nurturing at home. Teaching has changed since you went to school. Gone are the days of the "normal families". We are now faced with students that come from a variety of backgrounds. Of course, we would never know that if we went with your method and didn't try to learn anything about them...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/24/rhode.i...
I want to take responsibility for my part in putting upon the teachers in Spencer district for having it easy, etc.
We could be in Rhode Island:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/24/rhode.i...
These teachers make $90,000+ in a neighborhood school where the median income is $22,000 and students are 7% proficient in math. Now they want more money for a longer school day and tutoring time with students.
So they were all fired.
The point is, there are changes that could be made in Spencer, but in the big picture, we have it pretty darn good.
lakewriter, I work in a military community, and my students come from an extreme variety of backgrounds and incomes. I would say that over 50% of them don't get the kind of attention they need at home, and I am happy to provide them with whatever I can during and after the school day, as I have seen them thrive on the little bit of extra care they are given at school. How do you propose I treat your children (who I am sure are very well cared for and loved at home) any differently than the more unfortunate ones? I try to show all my students the same level of respect and care, and if it means annoying parents rather than leaving a needy child out in the dark, so be it.